A couple of years ago, I had no knowledge of how to search for London ancestors as I didn’t have any as far as I knew. But recently, with DNA assistance, I now have a few lines through dad’s finally found father.
As tonight’s #ANZAncestryTime chat was about resources for London research, I could actually mention some sources I have used.
What general resources have you found the most helpful or what are your favourite resources for researching ancestors from London and its surroundings?
I’m hoping to gain some inspiration on ancestors who lived or moved through London.
Looking forward to hints about ways to find my London ancestor pre civil registration when I have no idea of location
Research sites I’ve used include Genuki, Pallots Index, Family Search, Ancestry and census info as a guide to places of birth. Booth’s poverty maps are great – if you have a specific address
I have found the London Metropolitan Archives very useful bit.ly/3w8Efns and also the London Encyclopedia which I purchased recently
I struggle with having any confidence that I have found the correct birth or marriage when there’s a city of a bazillion people
Yes, it can be difficult especially if researching a common name … So many Browns in North London
Censuses, directories and parishes records! Huguenot society for sure too but also French/international collections at @MyHeritage because a lot were French or Belgian/Dutch emigrants or refugees 🤩
Because I focus on 1800s and early 1900s I find the census and church records most useful for the basic starting point for my London ancestors. They moved to NZ and Essex so I can follow they with the census to Essex
I don’t have any ancestors anywhere near London, and looking at my DNA matches tree, the location is mentioned only 17 times.
the @LdnMetArchives has a number of useful guides to its resources although record sets like Land Tax Returns which I find useful for 1770-1830 are often held in Borough Libraries. So much of the LMA data is now online which is really helpful.
Do you use London specific resources? Are these available online? Is it a good place to visit for research?
Yes – mostly. I find maps very useful too and books e.g. A guide to London’s churches by Mervyn Blatch and Tracing Your London Ancestors by Jonathan Oates
Spent a few days at LMA when I was in London many years ago. So much to look at.
Can you tell us a bit about the London Encyclopaedia?
It’s one of those wonderful books that you can dip in and out of. The best kind of reference book. It’s a massive volume – 1116pages and covers anything and everything – buildings, people, organizations, streets, embankments, turnpikes etc etc
I have found it enormously helpful when tackling #52ancestorsin52weeks on my blog this year. I have a few families who originated from London.
Yes it was great when my cousin was in Hammersmith. Plus she was very interested so we visited national archives and LMA. Found some wonderful and totally huge maps that were impossible to look at the middle sections without both of us rolling it up together.
Just bought an Unlock the Past book on London and Middlesex family history resources online from Gould Genealogy by Alan Stewart
no London ancestors that I know of but looked in our catalogue, quite a few resources librarycat.org/lib/CNGHRG/sea… may or may not be useful
I found Robsons Trade Directory, as part of Ancestry’s London City Directories collection, useful in placing a bricklayer ancestor in 1819. The occupation tied in with his convict indent & newspaper notices entered by family trying to track him in NSW.
In a large city ensuring you have the right person can be hard. What suggestions or techniques do you use that can help? What about pre-census and pre-civil registration? Or dealing with people and families with common first and surnames?
I think perhaps sometimes you may never know although if they had an unusual occupation that might help. I guess I look for common names in siblings or common churches for baptisms. But sometimes it’s just like looking for the proverbial needle…
Coming to terms with never knowing is difficult Alex. As family historians we want to know it all
We do want to follow them back but when it comes to London I throw my hands up and give up.
Just remembered when I started I had to use elimination to get down to a more manageable list before expanding out to look for other records. Found my great GM this way. This technique required sometime, logic and keeping good records.
Looking for consistencies across records e.g. other family members, occupation etc.
This is my major conundrum: how can you be sure pre-civil Reg and if they die before census? Do they move between parishes? Also married in London but lived elsewhere. Seems impossible when names are not unusual. Tips much appreciated.
Usually I look to a family’s children’s names to see if I can detect a pattern for the earlier generation eg why I’ve “decided” my William Partridge’s maternal grandfather was likely William Thompson.
I have an ancestor who was a journeyman carpenter but the marriage records labourer. All else “fits”.
clues for my Partridge family (then living in Gloucestershire): Eliza (mother) and son William both shown as born Westminster on 1851 census, daughter shown as St Pancras. My husband’s ancestors married in London, lived in Notts. she was from East Sussex
I have looked for wills and letters of administration as they will give names of people involved and addresses often.
I got a great will earlier in the year. It has a row of houses in London and my grandmother left different ones to different children. I just have to find it as I forgot to file it on my computer properly.
I think luck has a lot to do with getting the correct persons. I was lucky to have families that used unusual second names & less common maiden names reused down the generations. 3 cheers for Freeborn, Collis, Myhill, Frith, Grout, Tarbet & more.
Finding my 3x g grandfather Thomas Jones in London pre civil reg has been impossible, not knowing his location
What maps and mapping sites have helped you understand London and its surrounds? Do you find ancestors relocate and return to London? Any ancestors with interesting capital-based roles? In parliament, for example?
I tend to order maps from Gould Genealogy as I find it quite difficult looking at maps online. My Dad’s old AA guide to London from the 1960s came in quite handy when I was doing research recently ! It doesn’t have just maps but also guides to churches et al.
My dad’s side of the family were mainly from London, Surrey, Kent area so comparing google maps with the poverty maps and ordnance maps from Scotland site have been great.
National Library of Scotland has some digitised London info.
I sometimes use Google maps to check out the relative proximity, and distance, between 2 places that an ancestor has lived. However, my Brown line has pretty much been in the Tottenham/Edmonton area for generations and generations
I often use street view on google. Even though it is fairly recent I find it gives a different perspective. I had a go at layering a while back and stripping back to older versions can be enlightening.
When writing up my biographies, I try to include addresses as well and hope they are in close proximity. My great grandmother suewyatt.edublogs.org/2021/12/31/flo…
Do you love Scottish research or find it difficult? What are your favourite resources: sites, databases, books, speakers etc?
Being a Scot I love it. Agree, ScotlandsPeople is excellent and for more than just BMDs from 1855 onwards. Census returns 1841 to 1911, church registers, valuation rolls, Kirk session records and more. The number of archives available are also invaluable.
Does anyone have any “bibles” or books they refer to? TC Smout’s History of the Scottish People was recommended to me and I have The Scottish Family Tree Detective by Rosemary Bigwood.
As most of my ancestors are Scottish, I spend a lot of time doing Scottish research. Some work is easy, some is hard. I underwent the Tartan Trail on @WikiTreers so was taught how to find many sources.
Had a quick look at WikiTree on this and looks like a good place to learn more about Scottish research. Thanks for pointing it out.
Yes, you do @WikiTreers profiles which are critiqued. There are three levels, the last being well back with few records. I’ve done all three levels. Lots of good sources listed on the Scotland Project page – very helpful people in the team too.
Scotlands People is a must. Lots of good stuff there. And Scotlands Places is another. Clan Histories. Books about Scotland in general. Then the usual places for general sources
Have been researching a family in Glasgow. @ScotlandsPeople has been my go to resource. Ordnance Survey Maps from @natlibscotmaps have been very useful for adding context.
Don’t forget to check Burke’s Landed and Gentry and Burke’s Peerage for Scottish ancestors. You never know!
I should have shares in ScotlandsPeople! Other favourites: ScotlandsPlaces, Nat’l Library of Scotland, Nat Records of Scotland, Scottish Archives Network, Electric Scotland. FindMyPast’s Scottish records are well transcribed and I love the companion maps.
I purchased two wonderful maps from the NLS Maps Online just today Pauleen to overlay on Google Earth over Bothwell near Glasgow and Hawick Roxburghshire
I’m really liking that the FindMyPast census transcripts show you a map of the area you need. Mind you, it’s still necessary to do some sleuthing separately or you’d be lost.
Love researching with Scottish records, and in Scotland! Apart from gaps in parish registers, I haven’t found it too difficult. Fav sites: ScotlandsPeople and Findmypast, and NLS for maps. Chris Paton’s @PharosTutors courses are extremely useful.
thanks for mentioning Pharos Maggie. I have done a few of their courses (Alex here) and found them excellent. Also did some this year through the University of Strathclyde which were good too, particularly the one on working in the factories and mills
I have 42% Scottish ethnicity -my brother has 70% so lots of Scots from all over – Glasgow post office directories helped but Hebrides records are challenging – plus @scottishindexes did some great research finding records of my one female Scottish convict
Scottish research is a mix bag, not as easy as England. Scotland’s people and Scotland’s places are good resources. Ancestry and find my past is good for searching but no images so Scotland’s people to go for the images.
I have a love/hate relationship with researching my Scottish ancestors. I love Scotland but I’m not a very smart researcher I think. I keep coming to dead ends. I use Scotland’s people, the Scottish Indexes, the NLS etc.
I have traced back to the 1700’s on almost all Scottish lines Alex BUT my paternal g g grandfather who said he was born in Aberdeen (married in Northumberland) is a mystery
So much depends on how far back the parish registers survive. I have one that is limited. But I love the Strachur parish register which says “if you don’t find your name here, blame your parents who didn’t pay the fee”
I love Scottish research even though I’m relatively new to it. Their records usually have really detailed info
Mum has 19% and dad 39% and the only one known is on dad’s side.
Did the Scottish ancestor emigrate to Tassie? I haven’t tackled my husband’s Scottish emigrants yet. I expect it will teach me about endogamy. Wilsons, Wilsons, everywhere (and particularly around Rhyndaston, Tunnack, etc)
catherine mcKay came courtesy of the Scottish government in 1848 #ANZAncestryTime Iknow some Wilson family in Oatlands
“Courtesy of the Scottish government” Are you using a euphemism for convict? No need for that, you’re amongst #FamilyHistory friends 🙂
Catherine McKay born Scotland but in 1848 was at Cowgate, Edinburgh, Scotland according to convict records
Her convict husband was William Dawson tried in Edinburgh but born Berwick on Tweed
@scottishindexes located the pretrial and justiciary papers for my female Scottish convict Jean MacDonald from Paisley – over 30 pages
Chris Paton’s books are useful and I like the ones published about the National Records of Scotland. Also a very useful book from a thesis about Argyll in the 19th century.
I absolutely love researching Scottish #FamilyHistory My grandmother was Scottish and I am about half Scottish across all my lines. Their records are so detailed and the women retain their maiden names. What’s not to love?!
My paternal grandfather was Scottish and my maternal g grandfather so I grew up feeling quite Scottish. Having a very Scottish maiden name helped. And I named my first child Hamish!
And my grandmother taught me to love the pipes and all things Scottish to the chagrin of my mother and her Irish father.
My father took me to hear pipe bands when I was very small. Turns out I have a famous piper as an ancestor. Still go to the displays. I’m a Scottish dancer.
I am such a sook I burst into tears every time I hear them start up. I cannot speak I am so choked up with emotion. I spent my early childhood in Edinburgh and came home with a Scottish accent apparently when I was 4.
it’s fascinating but have not located the ancestors’ whose 15% is in my DNA
I love Scottish Research This week I have been using: 1.ScotlandsPeople (stat. registers, census images) 2.ScotlandsPlaces (Place name books) 3.National Library of Scotland Maps Using 2 & 3 together is a game changer. Late 19thC tenants are named.
…and I was looking at Kirk Session records at Scotlands People too. When using FindMyPast I now filter record sets to the Scottish Parish records.
I was lucky in my kirk session research. I knew exactly the time & place I was looking for – the 9 months before the birth of GGGrandfather John Robb Andrew. Looks like Isabella was able to keep the bump hidden until the 3rd trimester.
Have been researching a family in Glasgow. @ScotlandsPeople has been my go to resource. Ordnance Survey Maps from @natlibscotmaps have been very useful for adding context.
I need information back in the 1700s for my Scottish paternal family. That’s for my gggparents. Not many records then. My ggparents born in the early 1800s. Gparents in the 1850s.
Yes, I’ve used some legal documents looking for possible connections for my Dickson family. And muster rolls in Gairloch trying to work out the relationship between family members. Thank you for your help.
All inspired after the latest #ScottishIndexes conference. I’ve been tracing the Robb family of Aberdeenshire. Found double marriage of sisters, married in Ireland, but also recorded in their home parish register. Why did the home parish do that?
Project Scotland from WikiTree: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:Scotland
I’ve got most of the clans. Highland ancestors. I also have a good bunch of Border people, so books on the Borders are useful. And I’ve started looking at the free newspapers on Find My Past, but need more time.
I did mtdna testing with FTDNA as my direct maternal line is from Calligary Isle of Skye – an interesting exercise
Excited as I got notified today that @MyHeritage has added the Scotland Census Index, 1841-1901, with 24 Million Records to its catalogue. Great news for those with Scottish ancestors
my great grandfather was Scottish born at Port Glasgow
Have you used records that are unusual or unique to Scotland and what discoveries have you made? What tips would you offer others about these records or others?
Clan histories are a good guide to where to search – except my families seem always to be missing!
What is Service of Heirs and where do you find it? I’m impressed with the sources 🙂
I’m thinking Family Search – just did a quick google. First I’d heard of it. (Alex)
The original records are held at @NatRecordsScotland. The registers are series C22, which alas was closed for conservation purposes in the Before Times. (My fault for reporting white powdery residue, which after testing I was informed was “probably not anthrax” …)
That’s a reasonable overview, but there are a number of minor errors. After 1847, they’re in English, not Latin (and many of the local-court copies are in English). The decennial indexes run to 1859, not 1959. The index of tutories also includes curatories.
other good resources have been NLS maps and the newspapers at the BNA
Unique find: Saw a History TV program that mentioned my Uncle’s village. Mentioned it to my cousin and she said knew of the “Blackhouse” I saw on the TV. She had contact with some locals and over time has passed on family research details from them tp me.
On @scottishindexes I found that my 3X g grand father was a victim of forgery. Was able to download the entire proceedings and read his witness statement written in his own hand
I’ve only just got the hang of it this week, matching up the OS Maps to the place name books. The books describe the places, eg “Bogside, Mr John Robb, tenant, a small farm steading with dwelling house, out houses & garden in bad repair.”
TIP: Check all records available for your ancestors’ parishes and fully explore the offerings. It can be slow, and the content variable but you might find #genealogygold worth it!
using the Scottish Indexes I did order an entry in the Sheriff Court – Buchan vs Forfar. I”m not sure it was related to my ancestors but it was the first time I had seen this kind of record. It was for maintenance for an illegitimate child.
Scottish Post Office Directories were amazing for details on generations of my Newlands Merchant Tailors of Glasgow Bathgate and Shotts
Not necessarily unique to Scotland but to Church of Scotland (and Presbyterian?): Communion rolls and Kirk Sessions. Latter require slow patient review but can have wonderful detail. Pray for problem/naughty relatives.
Which part(s) of Scotland are your ancestors from? Any tips for researching “place” including endogamous communities in the Scottish Islands? Have you visited?
My Gairloch families intermarried so there is strong endogamy there. Few records until 1800. The MacKay Pipers are well known which has been a help. I have been to Scotland, but not had much time to look for family.
I have a similar problem with my maternal cousins fathers side from the Hebrides. Plus with Scottish naming patterns they have a very limited variety of names.
A good number of the shires feature in my tree. So Caithness and Ross at the top down to Kirkcudbright and Roxburgh at the bottom. Plus those who skipped over the borders and waters to Ulster and Northumberland.
My Scots ancestors are from Isle of Skye North Uist Rothes Elgin Paisley Glasgow Shotts Bathgate Edinburgh – my husband has some of these and also Angus Dundee Forfarshire Perthshire places we did a Scottish road trip in June 2019 – got it in before covid
James Ireland was born in Edinburgh. Came to NZ pre 1882. Not sure if John McDonald was from Scotland. He came to NZ with his wife Ann Scott and their children arriving Feb 1843.
in planning our 2019 Scottish road trip I contacted a family history consultant on Skye in advance to see if there was more that could be uncovered – however she advised that I & my relatives had already uncovered most of what would be known about my McKenzies
I have visited most of my Scottish ancestral places (not the Isle of Skye) and a planned trip back there last year is still on hold sadly
Most of my Scottish ancestors were from Fife, though moved into Perthshire, and have visited a couple of times. Recently discovered that 3xggg father was from Glasgow, so keen to get back there.
My husband’s family are also from Argyll- islands of Lismore and Mull. we found the relevant documents and spoke to some people as well. I haven’t explored the implications of DNA endogamy.
Main set of ancestors are from Aberdeenshire and Banffshire. Some moved to Edinburgh and Glasgow. DNA shows Top right hand corner of Scotland so fairly spot on.
Robb, Murdoch, Andrew from Aberdeenshire, Banffshire(?) Barclays, miners from Dysart, Fife William Andrew left Stonehaven, Kincardinshire to come to Australia. I visited friends near Glasgow one fabulous weekend (snow, whisky, & roaring fires, but no research)
ScotlandsPlaces is great for learning more about the place your ancestor came from. Also Nat Lib of Scotland maps are gold. Be aware that the spelling of the name may change over time. Gazetteers are invaluable as well.
Place in Scotland I am researching are Lanarkshire, Renfrewshire, Dunbartonshire, ,Aberdeenshire, Stirling, Ayreshire, Isle of Skye, Perth
McCorkindale/McCorquodale in Argyll on Lochs Fyne and Awe; Morrison at Strachur, Loch Fyne; Sim at Bothkennar in Stirling; Melvin in Leith near Edinburgh, and of course Glasgow for mid-19th century migration.
My Scottish ancestors are mostly from Glenshiel, in Ross & Cromarty. I haven’t visited. Yet!
my mob are from Stirling and Inverary. I think joining a local society and blogging have brought me the best results.
My Scottish Surnames: Morison, McCrae, McLeod from Glenshiel. Louden Alexander and Anderson from Lanarkshire. These are the lines I’ve been working on. THere are others
I have MacDonald McKenzie MacLean McIntosh Robertson Highland Clans, plus Tulloch Taylor Anderson Urquhart from Moray plus also Newlands Ure Weatherstone and more – plus my husband has heaps of Lowland Borders ancestry
Do you know their occupations and the industries they worked in? What sources are best or discovering occupations?
Four pipers to the Lairds of Gairloch! Lots of shepherds which is why they came to New Zealand. Stone masons. Weavers. Tailors. Stoker. Shipwright. Carpenter. Crofters and lots of ag. labourers. Smiths and iron forgers. Mariner.
I forgot I have a Scottish architect in my family. Charles Rennie MacIntosh. My husband is related to the English architect Charles Edward Mallows
My ggfather William Murphy was a mason in Urr (1871 Census). His father was a coal miner – fell down a pit, so recorded in the fatalities for mines.
Newlands were Merchant Tailors & Carpenters; others were agricultural labourers, cattle drovers, a Newland relative was Church of Scotland minister in Southwark & another Newlands relative from Bathgate went to West Indies as a carpenter & became a slave owner in Jamaica
a shock to find that the cousin of one of my ancestors was a slave owner – Bathgate had the annual John Newlands procession/festival – however they have just removed his name due to #BlackLivesMatter – they used my blog post on him as part of the change.org petition
Sue has reminded me that my Melvins were cooks as well as merchant seamen. My great-grandfather was an excellent confectioner. I really want to find apprenticeship records for him one day.
My Catherine McKay was a book folder in 1848 according to her convict records
My William Dawson was a bread and biscuit maker on his convict records.
quite a few were Crofters, Quarrymen who travelled the world a lot. Building trade – carpentry etc. Publicans as well. And a couple of nurses.
My Morrisons are a mystery. I can’t find the parents of my g g grandfather John Morrison the Sydney rail carriage builder. Born c 1847 Aberdeenshire
I find occupations in census records, kirk sessions, parish registers, civil registration, wills and even court reports. Merchant seamen are registered with the UK system.
newspaper obituary: James Finlay Stevenson, a native of Scotland, he came to Australia when he almost 19 years of age… he was a blacksmith by trade
My McCorkindale occupations changed with time and seasons: weavers, labourers, sawyer, wright. Descendants were either joiners or gardeners.
My Sim family farmed the land (leased) at Bothkennar for a couple of centuries. The Melvin/Melvill family from Leith were mostly merchant seamen and before that porters.
Scottish Indexes asked how are you all getting on with your Scottish research?
All inspired after the latest #ScottishIndexes conference. I’ve been tracing the Robb family of Aberdeenshire. Found double marriage of sisters, married in Ireland, but also recorded in their home parish register. Why did the home parish do that?
I’m not sure Brooke but there’s a bit of me that thinks it was standard or common practice at the time. Does anyone else know?
I think it tied into banns in both places and ensuring they had a record in both. Ive seen the same in Irish RC and some English records.
Considering that the idea of banns was to consult/inform the community, that makes sense. The couples returned to Scotland & it had to be known that they were validly married.
Just had a look on @ScotlandsPeople and the parish entry does not say where they got married. Have you checked to see if there are any Kirk Session records?
Mostly my own is going well. Your conferences have been an excellent insight into Scottish records and with different speakers too. Thanks so much!
Only thing missing is cemetery information 🙁 Still can’t find my great-grandfather’s burial from 1906.
might need to write personal post about tonight’s twitter chat and what I found afterwards
wow just found William Dawson also accused with others in 1847 for robbery. definitely going to need to do more Scottish research
wow just found Catherine McKay was accused with 6 other people for robbery in 1848, might need to get those papers.
Blogs to read about Scottish ancestors or searching for family in Scotland
Kerri Anne has lots of blogs about different branches of her Scottish ancestors