I’m confused!

Anemone123 / Pixabay

Who is my Charlotte Bryant, my great great great grandmother? 

Known records in Tasmania – click on the links to see the actual documents

  • 1855:  Charlotte age 51, a widow and cook (page 203-204) departed London on 1 October 1855 on the ship La Hogue then transferred to the steamer Tasmania in Sydney and finally arrived in Hobart Town on 19 January 1856 with daughter Caroline aged 17.  There was also a ticket for a Charles Bryant but this was crossed out. They were brought out on the application of R. W. Nutt and costing £22 per person.
  • 1856: Less than a year later, Charlotte had an application for her daughter Esther Julia and her husband Robert George Winter as well as his parents to come to Tasmania. They left London on 7 October 1856 on the ship Woodcote and arrived in Hobart Town on 29 December 1856. Cost was £32 per couple. Did Charlotte pay for this or did the immigrants?
  • 1859: Daughter Caroline married William Chandler a gardener age 24 at St Georges, Battery Point on 22 October 1859. One of the witnesses was R.G. Winter – Caroline’s brother-in-law.
  • 1863: Charlotte is the informant on her grandson William Charles Chandler’s birth on 18 February 1863. Charlotte’s address is Government Gardens as her son-in-law William Chandler is now working as a gardener at Government House.
  • 1865: Charlotte is the informant on her grandson Robert Henry Chandler’s birth on 11 March 1865. Charlotte’s address is Government Domain.
  • Between 1865 and 1877 other children are born to the couple and the informant is always Caroline Chandler at Government House.
  • 1883: Charlotte died in Tasmania on 1 May, 1883 aged 78. She was a widow and died from decay of nature. She died at 41 Elizabeth Street, Hobart, the residence of her son-in-law, Robert Winter, who owned a piano forte manufacturing company.

So, why am I confused? 

Now I start to look at the records back in England. Naturally the first one to look for would be the 1851 census where Charlotte should be about 47 years old and Caroline about 13. Esther might be there too, depending upon when she married Robert Winter.  From the arrival information in Tasmania, Charlotte was born in Sussex.

So in the 1851 census the following people are found living at 41 Barclay Street which must be nearly opposite St Pancras Gardens and the St Pancras Old Church in Somers Town.

  • Charlotte Bryant – head – unmarried – 46 years old – dressmaker – Sussex, Arundel
  • Julia Bryant – daughter – unmarried – 23 years old – house servant – Middlesex, St Pancras
  • Henry Bryant – son – unmarried – 18 years old – jeweller – Middlesex, St Pancras
  • Caroline Bryant – daughter – 12 years old – scholar – Middlesex, St Pancras
  • Charles Bryant – son – 7 years old – scholar – Middlesex, St Pancras

But this Charlotte is unmarried and a dressmaker not a widow and cook as mentioned in her arrival information. But she does have children Julia, Caroline and Charles who we know of from Tasmanian records.

About a kilometre away is another Charlotte Bryant – an unmarried servant – cook aged 50 born in London living in Charlotte Street, St Pancras area now Fitzrovia.

Next is the marriage of Esther Julia Bryant and Robert George Winter in 1852 at St Pancras. Caroline Bryant is a witness. Esther’s father is Henry and is a surgeon. Esther and Robert are living at Barclay Street when they got married.

In October 1851, Henry Bryant is married to Matilda Webb – father is Henry and is a surgeon. Henry is full age and they were married in parish church St Saviours, Southwark. A witness was Ann Drewett.

Going back 10 years to the 1841 census we find living in Tottenham Place, Marylebone.

  • Charlotte Bryant age 35 – not born in the county
  • Henry Bryant age 9 – born in the county
  • Caroline Bryant 3 – born in the county
  • Emily Bryant 1 – born in the county

Still no husband mentioned but on the bottom of the previous page of the census is H Weight age 35, surgeon who was born in the county. Could this be the father of the children?

Could Charlotte’s maiden name actually be Bryant?

Passing names down the generations

I knew I had Francis Colgrave as a name passed down at least three generations as he is one of my direct ancestors.  But I had to check my home database to find out some statistics for this post to see if names passed down happened in other branches of my trees. I’ve only included those with three or more names the same.

BLYTH, Edwin Tabrum – born 1888, 1937, 1961

BOXHALL, Anne – born 1810, 1840, 1959

BOYD, Frederick – born 1855, 1861, 1880

BROWN, Adam – born 1846, 1890, 1894

CHANDLER, William Charles – born 1829, 1863, 1895, 1923

COLGRAVE, Francis – born 1770, 1806, 1843, 1866, 1903, 1925

COLGRAVE, Joshua – born 1859, 1883, 1986

COLGRAVE, Louisa – born 1863, 1881, 1914

COLGRAVE, Samuel – born 1804, 1829, 1847, 1867

COLGRAVE, Thomas – born 1602, 1640, 1663, 1694

DAVEY, George – born 1865, 1898, 1902, 1930

DAVEY, Harry – born 1878, 1908, 1941, 2012

ENGLAND, Elizabeth – born 1830, 1857, 1900

ENGLAND, Mary Ann – born 1805, 1825, 1861

KILPIN, Richard – born 1724, 1790, 1831

MARU, Eliza – born 1829, 1846, 1863

SMITH, William – born 1840, 1883, 1911

SWAIN, Clement – born 1810, 1825, 1831

SWAIN, John – born 1783, 1808, 1815

Any births from about 1840 onwards will probably be in Tasmania also known as Van Diemens Land. Those prior to 1840 would be mainly in England – the COLGRAVE name in Bedfordshire, the ENGLAND name in West Yorkshire around Rotherham, the KILPIN name in Bedfordshire and the SWAIN name in Kent.

Readers: What name has been passed down in your family? Were you named after an ancestor or close relative?

I’d like to meet …

my great great great grandmother Charlotte Bryant nee ????

That is the first question I would ask her – What is your maiden name and when did you marry Henry Bryant?

These are the facts that I know positively about this woman.

Charlotte sailed from London on 1 October 1855 to Sydney with her daughter Caroline Bryant on the La Hogue which was a steamer. They then sailed on the Tasmania finally arriving in Hobart 19 January 1856.

Charlotte was aged 51 and a widow when she arrived in Tasmania.

According to her arrival details, Charlotte was a cook and born in Sussex.

 

Charlotte had at least three children – Caroline, Charles and Esther Julia. I know Caroline and Esther were living in Tasmania but unsure of where Charles and any other siblings were living.

In 1856 Charlotte Bryant sponsored her daughter and son-in-law who then arrived on the ship Woodcote along with Robert’s parents.

Tasmania, Australia, Immigrant Lists, 1841-1884 Alphabetical List of Immigrants with Details , 02 Dec 1856 – 18 Aug 1858

This meant Charlotte must have had a very good occupation (or already had money) to be able to pay for this so early after her arrival in Tasmania. She must also have needed good connections for it to have been done so quickly. RW Nutt, who sponsored Charlotte and Caroline, was a prominent lawyer in Tasmania. Also Caroline’s future husband, William, worked at Government House so maybe that was the connection.

When Caroline married William Chandler in 1859, Charlotte was not a witness but her son-in-law RG Winter was – Esther’s husband.

In 1863, Charlotte Bryant, residing at Government Gardens, was the informant on her grandson William’s birth.

UNIVERSITY OF TASMANIA STANDARD COPYRIGHT LICENCE https://eprints.utas.edu.au/licence.html

In 1865, now living at Government Domain, Charlotte was informant on another grandson’s birth Robert Henry.

Charlotte died at the residence of her son-in-law on 1 May 1883 at 41 Elizabeth Street, Hobart. She was aged 78, a widow and death was noted as decay of nature.

Readers: What would be some of the questions you would ask Charlotte if you met her – taking note of what I already know?

Favourite name

I don’t really have any favourite names among my ancestors because many of them are William, John, George, Hannah, Martha etc.

But I have always wanted to know where my great grandmother got her name from.

Julia Charlotte Chandler

Julia was born in Tasmania on 1 October 1860 to parents William CHANDLER and Caroline BRYANT. She married Henry Lewis ENGLAND

Naming patterns were often used so who were the mothers of William and Caroline?

I have no idea of William’s mother – need to do more research on this. But Caroline’s mother is Charlotte BRYANT. OK we have part of Julia’s name accounted for. Now to find out who the Julia comes from.

Possibly someone important in Caroline’s life – perhaps a sister or friend from back in England?

Looking on the marriage certificate for Caroline, the witnesses are RG Winter and Emma Mains? Who could these people be? They weren’t mentioned on the other marriages so would have to be friends rather than church clerks etc.

I decided to check any Tasmanian wills for an RG Winter or any Winter with the name Julia included to see if there was any reference to my Caroline.

There it was.

Robert George Winter had a wife Esther Julia Winter and some of the witnesses to his will had the surname Chandler. I could be getting close. Could Esther Julia be Caroline’s sister?

Esther Julia WINTER was bequeathing her worldly goods and chattels to her sister Caroline Chandler. She also mentioned the names of nieces who she gave particular workboxes and vases to – these were all relatives of my Julia Charlotte England nee Chandler.

I now know where her name came from:

Julia after Caroline’s sister who also arrived in Tasmania as a married woman in the 1850s

Charlotte after Caroline’s mother

 

 

My dinner party

#52ancestors theme for week 4 is ‘Invite to dinner’  I knew exactly who was coming to my dinner party.

William Chandler and his wife Caroline Chandler nee Bryant and John England and his wife Rebecca England nee Jackson are my great great grandparents on my mother’s paternal line.

I have already written some posts about William and Caroline as well as others on John and Rebecca.

But the reason I want to ask them to dinner is I have a lot of questions to ask them. I have settled for three questions per person.

William:

  • Where exactly were you born and when?
  • Who are your parents?
  • Did you know Caroline and her family before you came to Tasmania in 1855?

Caroline

  • Who was your father and what was your mother’s maiden name?
  • What happened to Charles before you and your mother came out to Tasmania?
  • Did you know William back in England and did he ask for you to emigrate to Tasmania?

John

  • Do you think your life in Tasmania was an improvement over life in Yorkshire?
  • Who were your parents?
  • How did you get to know Rebecca once you were both in Tasmania?

Rebecca

  • I know your father was William but what was your mother’s full name?
  • How is Sarah (Jane) Steele related to you?
  • What relation was Ann Jackson to you?

This would be an interesting dinner party as William and Caroline were free arrivals to Tasmania while John and Rebecca came at their majesty’s request (convicts). I wonder if this would make any difference to the conversation.  William’s family were into gardening while John was an iron moulder. The Chandler family lived in Sandy Bay while the England family were around Molle St, Barrack St and Goulburn St in South Hobart.

William and Caroline’s daughter Julia married John and Rebecca’s son Henry in 1885. I wonder how the two met. Maybe a local church?