Passing names down the generations

I knew I had Francis Colgrave as a name passed down at least three generations as he is one of my direct ancestors.  But I had to check my home database to find out some statistics for this post to see if names passed down happened in other branches of my trees. I’ve only included those with three or more names the same.

BLYTH, Edwin Tabrum – born 1888, 1937, 1961

BOXHALL, Anne – born 1810, 1840, 1959

BOYD, Frederick – born 1855, 1861, 1880

BROWN, Adam – born 1846, 1890, 1894

CHANDLER, William Charles – born 1829, 1863, 1895, 1923

COLGRAVE, Francis – born 1770, 1806, 1843, 1866, 1903, 1925

COLGRAVE, Joshua – born 1859, 1883, 1986

COLGRAVE, Louisa – born 1863, 1881, 1914

COLGRAVE, Samuel – born 1804, 1829, 1847, 1867

COLGRAVE, Thomas – born 1602, 1640, 1663, 1694

DAVEY, George – born 1865, 1898, 1902, 1930

DAVEY, Harry – born 1878, 1908, 1941, 2012

ENGLAND, Elizabeth – born 1830, 1857, 1900

ENGLAND, Mary Ann – born 1805, 1825, 1861

KILPIN, Richard – born 1724, 1790, 1831

MARU, Eliza – born 1829, 1846, 1863

SMITH, William – born 1840, 1883, 1911

SWAIN, Clement – born 1810, 1825, 1831

SWAIN, John – born 1783, 1808, 1815

Any births from about 1840 onwards will probably be in Tasmania also known as Van Diemens Land. Those prior to 1840 would be mainly in England – the COLGRAVE name in Bedfordshire, the ENGLAND name in West Yorkshire around Rotherham, the KILPIN name in Bedfordshire and the SWAIN name in Kent.

Readers: What name has been passed down in your family? Were you named after an ancestor or close relative?

My long Colgrave line

Back in the 1970s and 1980s, I was doing a lot of personal research on my convicts sent to Van Diemens Land. I was a member of many mailing lists and people around the world would ask for copies of their convicts’ records held at the Tasmanian archives in Murray Street. But back then, nothing was online. It meant going to the actual archives to look at microfilm and microfiche and then making copies on a printer. Many of these copies were on A3 paper that didn’t really hold the ink very well.

The main documents were:

  • conduct record which included where tried, ship to Australia, offences in the colony and sometimes a description as well as other information
  • indent record which included place tried, sentence,  description and relatives in England
  • description which included age, height, native place, colour of eyes, hair, tattoos etc

For those living in Australia, I only charged the cost for photocopying and the stamps to get to wherever I sent the documents. Most people would send me a five dollar set of stamps as payment. These helped when posting overseas.

One person from England asked me to look up her convict, and send her the paperwork to where she lived in Bedfordshire.  I would help again at a later time to transcribe the records if the person was having trouble reading the writing and the format of the documents. But I felt half the fun of research is trying to work out what the document said by yourself first. She thanked me very much for all my help and said if ever I needed help researching in Bedfordshire then to get in contact with her.

At this time I was researching one of my convicts – Francis COLEGRAVE tried in Huntingdon Assizes in March 1832. He didn’t have an indent record, so no names of parents or siblings to work from. His conduct record did say he had a brother who had been transported too and that Francis had been in prison before. But where was Huntingdon? I had never heard of that as a town or county in England.

But to go any further back I would need to use parish records as his birth was prior to 1837. Very few of these were online at that stage. I searched A2A which was archive to archive in England, some other records from the National Archives England, but I needed help.

So my friend in Bedfordshire spent hours when she could researching the Colegrave family for me. She found prison records, parish church records, military records, tax records and finally this is where my line of Colgraves are at the moment.

Sue Wyatt

  1. daughter of Phyllis England
  2. daughter of Hannah Davey
  3. daughter of Martha Colgrave
  4. daughter of Francis John Colgrave
  5. son of the convict Francis Colgrave
  6. son of Francis and Frances Colgrave nee Bourn in Thurleigh, Bedfordshire
  7. son of Samuel and Sarah Colgrave nee Pain
  8. son of Francis and Mary Colgrave nee Cooper
  9. son of Thomas and Rebecca Colgrave nee ???
  10. son of Thomas and Juditha Colgrave nee ???
  11. son of Thomas and Margaret Colgrave nee Pettitt

This fabulous researcher got me back to the birth of Thomas in 1602 and his wife Margaret in 1603. This is 11 generations back from me.

Having tested my mother’s DNA, we have found proven cousins back to Samuel and Sarah Colgrave nee Pain.

Readers: How many generations back is one of your ancestors? Must be proven through records though.

 

 

No genetic relationship but ….

Mum and Sibyle have been friends for ages through the Girl Guide movement where they were both commissioners at some stage and members of Trefoil.  A few years ago they were travelling back from a meeting in Launceston via Evandale where many of my COLGRAVE and DAVEY relatives were born. Mum pointed out a house where her great aunt Ethel lived and mentioned she had brought me up there one time when I was a baby.  To mum’s surprise, Sibyle said Ethel was her cousin – in fact they were first cousins once removed.

So how are mum and Sibyle related?

They both share Francis COLGRAVE and Isabella WATKINS(ON) – Sibyle through her grandfather Samuel Colgrave and mum through her great grandfather Francis John Colgrave, sibling to Samuel.

Sibyle turned 100 last year and as she is one generation older than my mum, I thought I would ask if I could get her DNA tested. She said yes, so I spent a fantastic afternoon in the nursing home, chatting to Sibyle while she worked up enough spit to put in the tube to send back to Ancestry.

Wait …wait … wait …

Two nights ago, the results came in. Now as 2C1R I was expecting to see mum and Sibyle sharing at least some DNA but when I went to shared matches for mum, Sibyle was not there. Why not?  I asked on a Facebook DNA group was it unusual for 2C1R not to share DNA and had many replies but one was from Blaine Bettinger who had written a great post about just this problem.

Yesterday I uploaded Sibyle’s DNA to Genesis. This is the next version from Gedmatch. It allows people to compare others who have tested with other DNA companies not just Ancestry.  Because of the algorithm used by Ancestry some smaller segments might not be included in their results, so I was hoping those smaller segments would be there in Genesis.

More waiting … but using the one to one comparison, I found mum and Sibyle did share DNA but only 18cM over two segments which should mean they relate about 5 generations back.

Results comparing mum and Sibyle using Genesis.

I then decided to compare the amount of DNA from matches shared by both mum and Sibyle. The results in the table are from Ancestry other than the one where I have Genesis.

Readers: Has anyone else had a surprise when there was no DNA when you thought there should be especially with closer relatives?

Family Snaps

This week in #52ancestors the theme is “Family photos”. Unsure if this meant any photos taken by a family member or photos of families, I thought I would add a few of both in this post as a gallery of snaps. Many of these photos have been used in previous posts.

 

Will, will or will

For this post, week 9 in #52ancestors, I had to decide:

  • Will I research a relative named Will or William?
  • Will I look at a will from one of my relatives?
  • Or will I research a relative who was willing to do more than most?

My decision was to check out the wills of some of my relatives. We are very lucky here in Tasmania that the wills of many people are found online at the LINC Tasmanian names index.

What did I learn from these wills?

My grandmother Hannah ENGLAND had bequeathed 25 pound to each of her grandchildren when they attained the age of 16.

My grandfather Henry Lewis ENGLAND bequeathed his piano to me. I remember as a child learning and practicing those scales and even now, after many years of not using the piano, I can still play most of Fur Elise from memory.

It looks like my great great grandparents John and Annie DAVEY did not leave wills so the Supreme Court appointed some of their children to make an inventory and then to sell the goods and chattels and hand the money to the court to pay costs. I am not very good at reading all that legalese though so it might mean something else entirely.

My great great grandfather Francis COLGRAVE left everything to his two youngest sons, presumably as the older sons already had their own properties and the older sisters were all married with their own families.

I can’t find any more wills of my direct relatives but one of my indirect relatives (sister of my great great grandmother Caroline Chandler nee Bryant) named Esther Julia WINTER left many instructions on who was to receive what in her will.

Readers: What is the most interesting will you have read in your family or from collateral kin?